> Water samples on Friday showed the plume is now completely gone, DeWine said.
I saw an unverified video linked on reddit that alleged to show that the contaminants sink to the bottom of water [1]. Could this be the reason why the water does not appear contaminated?
I don't mean to downplay the disaster, but just because there's a sheen that appears when disturbing the creekbed doesn't indicate it's a result of the contamination from the disaster or even petroleum-related contamination at all: for instance, bacteria can form a similar oil-like sheen on water. I don't think it's possible to conclude anything without sampling the water, and definitely not from a video of someone just stirring up the water.
(as also mentioned in the Reddit comments, the fact that the Twitter poster is a staunch North Korea supporter should make people evaluate the context of this video a little more critically -- I don't mean they can't be right, but they are at least pushing this with a certain agenda)
The other person who posted a viral video of the water with an oil-like sheen was US Senator JD Vance, who is... ahh... well, basically the furthest thing from what the other Twitter poster put out.
The Air Traffic Control meltdown we’re seeing (ask any airline pilot about the vaccine mandate’s effect on ATC and pilot early retirement/staffing) the shipping port mess in 2021, continuing supply chain transport issues, seemingly frequent train crashes — Shouldn’t Buttigieg be taking flak?
The FAA budget for example stated a priority for “equity” and inclusion. Shouldn’t the priority be air fucking safety? The FAA is a mess right now. And it’s Buttigieg’s fault. But at least we were able to spend millions changing “airmen” to “air missions” in the NOTAM system — all while doing nothing to actually fix the NOTAM system. Now the FAA also wants to stop people from using the term “cockpit” — not realizing that there is nothing in the history of that word that is “gendered.” Just stupidity and madness. JD Vance is right to hammer the administration: while DoT is worrying about gendered language, trains are derailing with toxic chemicals and planes are nearly crashing because of faulty ATC.
Of course. I don't doubt the scale of the disaster but it's very easy in the face of uncertainty for anyone to jump to conclusions without doing their due diligence, either due to some agenda or just inadvertently.
The nice thing about extremists is that they're sufficiently non-invested in making the status quo look good that they're happy to point out when it's shit.
Frankly I really like the extremists on both sides of the isle. While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that.
But they'll also happily claim that the status quo is terrible even when it is in fact objectively quite good.
Re your second paragraph: Things that logically derive from insane starting points can still be insane. Often are, in fact. When they are right, they are right only by random accident. I'm not saying "don't read them", but don't use what they say to adjust your priors very much.
> While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people
Being so staunchly principled that you cannot compromise or be practical or be open to have your mind changed is not a virtue, in my mind. If anything it is arrogant.
> who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that.
Outcomes are more important. If your beliefs are abhorrent then your policies will follow. That is not something to admire.
Yes but being principled to the point that you do obviously stupid things isn’t good, and it’s even worse when idealogical zealots seize hold of power. We want people to poke holes in things which is what I think you were getting at, but they should be nowhere near anything serious.
Interestingly the GOP is the "extreme right" in the US, where the Democratic party is primarily centrist/center right folks. Makes for really weird inter-party interactions within the Democrats.
I think it's great if people are vigilant regarding threats to clean air and water, and if people don't want to take the Ohio Governor's statements at face value when he says samples look clear, I can relate.
But "calling for the ban of all guns" is such a poor summary of the kinds of policy reactions that briefly find their way into discourse (and do not find traction) that any reader could be forgiven for assuming it doesn't matter whether you're trying to be unreasonable or just a natural.
Still, if we're going to look for similarities between that situation and this one... I think you'd find many people are quite willing to discuss the further regulation and liability in chemical transport, including whether what we have now is adequate, just like they might be willing to talk about whether firearm laws and regulations are adequate. The article certainly mentions lawsuits the railroad is facing, so that's already one avenue of accountability in play.
What's "unfathomable" about accountability via lawsuit and the Ohio health department doing water monitoring? Do you have specific insights into what they're not doing correctly, or is this more vague distrust?
19,000 Americans died as the result of a gunshot (excluding suicides) in 2020.
60,000 premature deaths were estimated to have been caused by air pollution in 2019, mostly from sources that were operating within regulations.
Was this bad? Yes. Is this a huge disaster in any way comparable to the ones we inflict on ourselves without a thought? Not on the evidence I’ve seen thus far.
Yes. The carcinogenic effects of acute exposure to vinyl chloride are low, and most of it was burned off intentionally by setting the train cars on fire.
Those most at risk are the first responders; everyone who heeded the evacuation order should be pretty much fine.
Some risk, yes, which is why I mentioned the first responders, as they were closest to the burn itself.
Phosgene breaks down in the environment on timescales measured from hours to days. The five-day evac window was more than enough to remove all appreciable amounts of phosgene from the environment. And given how reactive it is, you can trust the lack of anyone showing up in a hospital in east Ohio looking like they climbed out of an eastern-front trench as indicative that the phosgene has not caused harm.
It's real easy to over-estimate the damage this spill will do. In practice, people have been using (and spilling) vinyl chloride for over 180 years; we have a pretty good sense of the damage it can do. Not a good situation, but far on the low end of environmental impact risks (somewhere north of "a car full of diapers" and far, far south of "a car full of perchloroethylene").
My understanding is that the railroad recently implemented a new system to try to run tighter schedules with less staff and that railway workers attempted to strike because of overwork due to staff reductions. Those seem like plausible contributions to this disaster that could be addressed.
and if this happened just outside Atlanta, it would be all over the news for the next month..and senators would call it racial injustice. Not to mention every govt agency on site.
Train derailments happen regularly every week, but not to this extent. It’ll be an ecological disaster. The water may be fine now, but no so much in a month. Ground water seepage takes time.
You are trying to compare a large toxin spill against a municipal failing to upgrade their infrastructure. This is similar to Flint, MI.
If you want to compare Jackson, MS..it’s 82% black (which is why you brought it up) in which its own state calls it the murder capital of the world.
It appears they have a lot of city related issues including misappropriation of funds.
Or the mass freakout about covid... forcing people to do all sorts of silly health theatre seems to be fine in some circumstances- you can never be too careful when it comes to a politically popular health concern, but somehow (and I admit I don't understand the political angle here) people are saying "oh yeah there's lots of reasons why water can have an oily sheen on top of it". The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but it's weird to see the doublethink
I saw an unverified video linked on reddit that alleged to show that the contaminants sink to the bottom of water [1]. Could this be the reason why the water does not appear contaminated?
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/11480zm/east_palest...