There are plenty of other examples from America, including vintage Ford Mustangs, Winnebagos, Converse tennis shoes and Baseball. I spent a couple of years expatriated to Japan and learned that for a Japanese person to admit they had a hobby or interest actually meant they were expert with it. You wouldn't admit you 'enjoyed playing violin' in your spare time unless you were a maestro. If you were not an expert, you would not talk about your interests. If a Japanese colleague mentioned they had 1966 Mustang, you could be certain it was perfect. For many Japanese colleagues, if I spent enough time drinking with them, I'd find a surprisingly intense sense of pride and mastery in an obscure area of interest. You'd never know about it unless you spent time enough to get past their modesty so they'd talk about it. I'd venture that this is the source of the author's observation about not just copying, but improving.
There were also some pretty twisted counter-examples of not getting Americana quite right. I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets.[Edit]
- Taxi doors open themselves (and the drivers wear white gloves)
- Subway maps light up to indicate where you are
- You can hold your table at a cafe by leaving your phone or keys or wallet & nobody will steal it
- Take out coffee often has a piece of tape so it won't spill
- People are friendly & cheerful when you met them (although they are much the same when you get to know them)
- Goods are packaged beautifully (if perhaps excessively)
- Sexuality is much more specialized (if sometimes bizarre)
- French pastries are better than in France
- Even ice cubes are better
- I could go on and on...
While Japan has many flaws almost any "thing" you can point to, if not always better, is usually better. What is perhaps more interesting is the things that are worse.
"What is perhaps more interesting is the things that are worse."
First and foremost I believe is resistance to change. The reasoning of "because that's the way it has always been" and general bureaucracy means change is very slow to come. When change is actually put into motion it occurs with amazing efficiency but initial resistance seems much stronger than many other cultures.
Anyway, my personal counter list might go like this:
- Blatant sexism
- The work emphasis placed on quantity (time) over quality
- Despite a reputation of High Tech, requiring paper (printed) documents for nearly everything.
- Meeting people outside of work/school is so unusual that often you can make someones night by striking up a conversation in a bar. Great for the visiting tourist but seems suffocating for many Japanese.
- Fantastic food often ruined by the people chain smoking right next to you.
Still really enjoy living here, but I fortunately don't have to deal with the Japanese work environment like many of my friends do.
A friend of my family knows a few female Japanese expats. They are all very adamant that they absolutely would not go back to living in Japan due to the sexism.
Another thing to add to that list is the Japanese justice system: no trial by jury at all.
I hear from friends who are not Japanese / Asian who work there a lot that Japanese are generally quite xenophobe; is that true generally or in certain regions or?
Yes, Japan has a long history of mutual xenophobia with China and other countries around southeast asia. I'm not sure if you were referring to that or xenophobia of westerners though, which I've also heard about. Despite that however, it seems like a great place to live.
Don't forget trash cans. I regularly spend 10+ minutes walking around looking for a trash can. I know they got rid of them due to terrorism but c'mon that was 15 years ago.
That's not true. They generally consider it people's own responsibility to take care of the trash themselves by taking it home & disposing of it there.
Most people don't stop to think: it costs money to dispose of trash. Here they just don't believe the city should have to foot the bill for your garbage. Different way of thinking about it, is all.
No, it's a lack of consideration. That's the paradox of Japan. They consider a lot, say spending zillions on the care of vegetation by the municipality. But then you find that there's not enough waste cans to dispose of the trash from the street food you just bought. They could tax the vendors a bit more, have them pay for the waste removal they are ultimately generating, then everyone's happy.
Then there's the lack of soap dispensers in restrooms. you know where you might have just had an accident, you get to clean up your hands with just water. Then jet dry all the particles into the air on that overbuilt $1900 unnecessary hand dryer. You know for the sake of cleanliness. I guess dry hands are clean hands right?
It's a different way of thinking about it. So the guy who had shit on his hands, cleaned it up, but it's still on the faucet. Now I've touched the faucet (with my had because no towel dispenser of course) and I've got his shit on my hands. Real cool. But they good thing the hedges outside the restroom look so nice.
To the untrained eyes, it may appear that there is no where to throw trash away in Tokyo. This is because the Japanese have cleverly disguised the trash cans as vending machines (PET bottles/aluminum cans) and convenience stores (other garbage).
I live in Thailand where most toilets have a handheld sprayer next to them -- part bidet and part firehose. Awkward at first but it's hard to tolerate a paper-only cleansing after you get used to them. While European-style bidets have their charm the furthest expression of this luxury is the Japanese toilet. Push button controlled, temperature regulated and with a drying cycle that's like a spring breeze on your privates. After using one it's hard to understand why they're not the norm.
if you smear something greasy on your arm and dribble water on it nothing happens. Imagine a bidet as a gentle spray of water and it wont clean anythung.
if you imagine a bidet as a pressure washer, you get soaked clothes and soaked legs and filth splashed everywhere.
if you imagine it as something you need toilet paper with - wet toilet paper is awful and useless and turns to chunks.
if you imagine it like a shower with soap and water then you need a towel afterwards.
There is something about Japan that leads foreigners to alternate between extreme admiration and complete negativity. There are varying opinions about everything of course, but with Japan the same person will alternate between the two extremes. One minute you find yourself marveling at how nice, thought out and efficient everything is in Japan, and wish every country could be like that. The next minute you despair about how backwards, inefficient and hopeless Japan can be.
As a contrast, western expats in China seem to be all about the complaining. Except when they suddenly start defending party policies when discussing with a foreigner who is less knowledgeable about China.
Well the "CCP are evil tyrants destroying the freedom of chinese" gets frustrating when you are sitting in china watching the destruction of poverty and rise of the middle class wealth and power. ;-)
> CCP are evil tyrants destroying the freedom of chinese" <snip> destruction of poverty and rise of the middle class wealth and power.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, most people believe both are happening. I don't think anyone doubts the middle class in China is on the rise, the question is, "at what cost?" If they're rising because of China's economic bubble, when it crashes, they're going to be worse off than before. Potentially much worse off. Some economists believe that when China crashes, it will be the worst economic disaster in recorded history. Now whether that's true or not is another matter, but the fact that people are even making those claims can't be good. There's some substance there.
There is rarely any substance in people predicting the future.
I don't really understand the prediction that china is a bubble, you have a huge population getting education and experience, and you are doubting there is a huge amount of value to be derived from them? People think predict it's a bubble because it's ridiculously huge, but that's just as likely to be because China is ridiculously huge... no?
Almost everything? These people live in shoe boxes, and you have to be a millionaire to get a parking spot in Tokyo. The men work all day long and then have to get drunk with their coworkers in the evenings. They smoke and drink too much, and you can never get a straight answer out of a Japanese person.
If you're a foreigner there are still a lot of landlords who'll refuse to rent to you. The cops are famous for beating confessions out of suspects.
And local protestations to the contrary, you can't get a good steak in Japan, as if you could afford it anyway.
Have you ever had steak in Japan? In my experience, it was uniformly excellent, much better than what you can find in most places in the US.
And the same parking spot issues apply in Manhattan as well. But it's moot because you don't need to own a car in either place, and you probably don't want to, because it's a huge hassle.
You can get excellent steak in Japan. The best steak I ever had was at a teppanyaki restaurant in Ginza. You pay for it though (~¥50K for two people, at that place).
So "downtown Tokyo" = all of Japan now? I lived in Japan for 14 months and I can tell you right now they don't all "live in shoe boxes". Hell, my rental flat in Japan was bigger than my 2 bedroom house here on the outskirts of Sydney, oh and it was cheaper.
> and you can never get a straight answer out of a Japanese person.
Let me guess, you got all your information on Japan from Debito or that Gaijin forum?
Is this a joke or something ? I live in Japan, I'm French, and there's no way the pastries you buy over here are as good (or even as cheap) as in France. Or you must have been to the wrong part of France.
They're not as good as Paris, but they're getting better.
The first time I went to Japan, I had a number of experiences buying a perfect-looking french pastry, only to find that the inside was cakey, or filled with hot dog, or some other weird thing. It was like the form of the thing had been perfectly copied, but not the substance.
Went back again a couple of years ago, and the average pastry was much closer to what I'd buy at a decent shop in France. I figure they've got another few years before they're competing with the MOF winners. ;-)
You can never get pastries as good as in France for a simple reason: humidity. It influences the cooking process in such a way you can never get the same texture, and your pastry will become soft within hours of cooking because it soaks ambient humidity.
Pastries in Japan are still quite good, but they can never hope to compare with French ones - they developed their own style and adapted it to Japanese tastes as well, so you can't even expect to get something that has the same taste either, even if it looks alike. And for certain items, you just can't find anything that even matches the supermarket form of it in France : take Pains au chocolat, most of them scream of utter failure in Japan when you bite into them. And I've tried numerous ones, even in expensive bakeries, and was always disappointed.
And let's not forget pastries in Japan are way more expensive than in France. That counts, too.
"You can never get pastries as good as in France for a simple reason: humidity. It influences the cooking process in such a way you can never get the same texture, and your pastry will become soft within hours of cooking because it soaks ambient humidity."
France is a big place. I'm reasonably sure that humidity levels differ between French cities, yet they still make French pastries.
I mean, I get it: you're always going to find some reason to like French pastries better. But "humidity" is a pretty bad reason, since you can actually control it.
No, this is precisely the explanation that was given to me by pastries making companies based in Japan. I'm not inventing anything. And France never gets 90% Relative Humidity. Check the data. Japan's humidity is way higher.
If Japan is so much "better", why did birthrates start falling in 1974 without stopping, to the point they are now at or near the "lowest low" from which no society is known to have every recovered?
Besides the immediate problems (including the prefectures dropping on the floor the information necessary for old age pension payments for way too many who didn't work for big companies, those in the high risk/low reward part of the economy), e.g. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_Japan, there will be no Japanese people by the end of the next century, and given the tough neighborhood they live in, "the end" will probably come much sooner.
If you don't replace yourself, you're a dead end, a historical curiosity at some point if you're lucky. Imagine a Japan that is one day remember mostly for and about it's anime and manga.... And, oh, yeah, they found a superior way to make good quality cars, assuming we're still using those in the 24th and a Half Century.
They are going to need to manage that. Japan is overpopulated and too expensive. The right people need to think about new models and processes for population decline. Bringing in foreigners is the solution people throw out. Why the hell wouldn't you want to shrink things down and embrace what can be done with that?
They need to slow population decline but a decline is good for that country for a little while. Way too many people, too long of lines. They need more leisure time and less stress there.
"Why the hell wouldn't you want to shrink things down and embrace what can be done with that?"
That's simply not an option for a country with as big a welfare state as Japan's, unless of course they take the Soylent Green approach, which would seem to be at odds with the cultural respect for the elderly, ancestors, etc. (maybe that's changing). Add the government essentially misappropriating the people's wealth to fund decades of extreme fiscal deficits, to the point of 214% of GDP per the CIA and 238% per the IMF (per Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_de...) ... as more and more people retire, the money they thought they had in their e.g. Japan Post Bank, they're not going to be able to withdraw it, at least in vaguely similar economic terms.
I don't know what the hell they can do, that doesn't involve serious inhuman stuff.
I don't see that as being financially viable in the way I was referring to, taking care of the elderly. I was thinking of something more like warehousing them, at best.
Their economic system is so broken I'm not sure more robotics would make a qualitative difference in the outcome.
A remarkably American centric article, in which the author appears to see America as the origin of things instead of just a dot on a long line that has always been weaving back an forth between different cultures and countries.
A casual remark betrays this blind American-centrism: "the new American hipster ideal of Brooklyn is clumsily copied everywhere from Paris to Bangkok".
Seriously? Coming from Amsterdam I have a hard time seeing the American hipster culture as anything other than heavily copying Northern-European lifestyles in a way that strongly reminds me of how Japan so often imitates Western cultures. (Also the same pattern, stuff that is added or reshaped in America appears here again, which may confuse the author. But "clumsily copyied", are you f-ing kidding me?)
Interesting article, but the lack of perspective bothers me.
I visited Stockholm in the 90's and there were many many young people there that were defacto hipsters in they way they dressed, bought vinyl, used old film cameras like lomo's etc. etc. way before I saw the same in London or New York.
I have this view that the individualist fashionistas all around the world are in realtime creating a movement like hipsterism without realising it, and for the most part people think they look like idiots, but every now and again the right person hits the right look at the right time and there's suddenly lots of people copying it, and validating the look creating a movement.
Yes, the Japanese do not have a particular attachment to American culture. They also replicate Scotch whisky lovingly, for example. And there are kissa for all sorts of things.
I feel the Japanese struggle within their overcrowded society and that "specialization" is a way that one can have his own corner of freedom. If you go over there, you will notice that people work extraneously long hours, get paid little, and are constantly playing an intricate interaction model where seniority, class, sex, origins all play major roles. This is why so many went into video games, anime or manga. They need an escape. And just as you find that drive within their work, which is at the most strict expectation level, you can find traces of it in their hobbies.
Is Japan overcrowded? Because I don't think it is. Yes their cities are (I fail to understand the drive to live in a city, I see mostly disadvantages) but they have a large amount of unpopulated areas which, if people spread out, would not be considered overcrowded? Unlike the Netherlands where I'm from for instance, which is basically a big city.
One thing that it's difficult for foreigners to acknowledge is that Japan is so completely different to the western world that it's almost impossible to comprehend. Articles like this, and the musings of western visitors/workers, read more to me as people misinterpreting their surroundings and misunderstanding Japanese culture. I'm convinced that a lot of Japanese have difficulty understanding the current state of their own culture too. The best way I can describe it is that western culture (capitalism/consumerism/democracy) does not mix well with traditional Japanese culture and has resulted in a bizarre chaos. My first-hand experience has shown me that a lot of Japanese prefer the traditional culture to what they currently have and I do not blame them one bit.
What makes you say that it's impossible to comprehend?
I've been here on and off ~8 of the last 16 years. Several non Japanese friends that have been here 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I don't get the impression any of them have a hard time comprehending any of it.
As for some Japanese (not all by a long shot) preferring traditional, first off, those are not all or even most. Many of those that do are similar to people in the west that prefer "organic" or "natural" or "traditional" for arguably no rational reason.
I don't personally know any Japanese that want to go back to any kind of "traditional culture". Heck, I'm writing this from "The Terminal", a shared workspace in Harajuku surrounded by Japanese on notebooks. Hardly "traditional" in any sense.
From my years with my Japanese wife, and the time I've spend in Japan. I've learned that the key difference of Japanese culture from American culture is is that americans consider quantity as the measure of value, and Japanese consider quality to be that measure.
Japanese people will pay more for the higher quality of equivalent goods, and are interested to learn the difference. While americans feel cheated if they pay more for a great meal served in small portions, and consider stores like costco and k-mart to be some of the best shopping choices.
I can assure you if you think Japanese people are missing the point by copying others you are very much mistaken.
They are not making a copy, they are embracing the point.
I think this is far too blanket of a statement given the radical diversity of America in most every respect.
Many Americans certainly will go for the 50% cheaper, 85% as good product. And yet America is the largest market for the iPhone, and it does particularly well here. In the not so distant past, superior Sony products - amongst people I know - used to be heavily desired for their quality.
I don't think very many people consider K-Mart to be among the best shopping choices, quite the opposite in fact; ditto Wal-Mart. Being economical doesn't mean they consider it ideal shopping.
It's very difficult to grok without seeing it at many levels for many years. And your counter point is a good example of why. It's easy to point to Americans who have plenty of money and so shop at finer stores. Nevertheless, at every level the difference between cultures is quality vs quantity.
Regardless if you and I shop at K-Mart you can not deny the market share those types of stores hold in the US. Most people who don't go to them associate them with being poor, or unfashionable products. Not because we truly evaluate, or even know how to evaluate the quality of the products they sell. This is why rich Americans are just as likely to buy poor quality expensive products. The measure is exclusivity, or status symbol, which is an aspect of quantity. Successful Americans rarely show off their good taste and fine quality, they show off the amount of money they have.
Whereas a Japanese person will go into a K-Mart or a Forever-21(low price current fashion 'knock-offs') for that matter and look at the stitching and actually judge the quality. There are poor people in Japan, who wold never buy some types of american products because they know that while it's cheep it won't last very long so the net value is lower. I rarely, if ever, see an American make that trade off (especially in business). In a quality oriented society, people actually build skills to judge quality over a life time.
Not every single person mind you, but as a culture we each lean in a direction.
My wife is Japanese and through her I cam to a realization about this very topic.
My hypothesis is: Japanese do not accept anything less than perfection. The accompanying motto seems: "If you cannot archive perfection, don’t even bother starting.“
To illustrate my point; My wife might ask me to purchase something for her. Whenever I could not get the specific product she asked for, I just bought something comparable. At home she would be disappointed to her core, to the point where she considered the possibility that my intentions where nefarious. Every time this happened I was shocked. Why would I try to bring her harm by not buying the exact same thing, but something comparable? Now I was convinced that her thought-process is rather unique. Yet, to my surprise, almost every Japanese person who I befriended on a deeper level behaved the same way.
To me it seems for Japanese people there is an crucial "line of competency". An average Gaijin (non-Japanese) is seen as incompetent to act according to Japanese customs (rightfully so). Almost everything a Gaijin does, even if it is rather obnoxious, is not judged by Japanese, but accepted as: „Well..., different culture, different habits."
When they allow you in their circle, befriend you, you are seen as to cross the „line of competency“ and your actions will be judged by higher standards.
Now imagine you grew up in a society where everything you do is expected to be done perfectly. And a consequence of not doing something perfect is bringing shame to you and those around you (Japan is a shame based culture, so that is extremely bad). You will not consider starting a task unless you have a very high chance of archiving mastery. If you do a task, you are not perfect in, you better hide it.
Another example: A friend of mine visited me in Japan and quite frequently asked people for directions. To his awe every single one of them went out of their way to help him. People walked for very long distances with him, making 100% certain that he will get to an ATM. In their mind, drawing on a map just did not suffice. They would walk with him all across Shinjuku station (the busiest station on the planet) making sure he will find the right train. To him these were just examples of nice people in Japan. I believe he, unknowingly, tasked these poor people with unreasonably big requests. When asking for the nearest ATM these Japanese did not consider the possibility of pointing in a direction, as this would have left too much room for error. Anything less than walking with him would have brought shame to them. Actually when you ask directions and they „just“ point (it happens) look at their faces. Often thy turn away from you in shame. Or their faces will freeze as if they just did something appalling.
Imagine having a country of 129 million perfectionists. How would the society be run? Trains would always be perfectly on time. Food would always look as delicious as in the ads and taste like you hope it would. People would be very stressed committing to anything they have not done 100 times before. People would feel the constant pressure to live up to insane expectations and if they could not hold up to them, they would be anxious to leave their houses (otaku). — If you are not familiar with the Japanese culture, this is exactly like it is in Japan.
A last point to support the article, I was in Rome and an Italien friend brought me to „the best pizzeria in Italy“. I must say, it was a truly delicious pizza. 3 Days later I was in Osaka and went with a Japanese friend to a „very good “ pizza place. Every single slice of pizza I ate there was pure perfection. It blew the „best pizzeria in Italy“ out of the water. The pizzeria in the Namba Parks is run by Japanese who studied in Italy.
...the original battery-powered pocket transistor radio, launched in 1955, and
the first portable solid-state black-and-white television, in 1960. Plus:
videocassette players, portable video recorders, the now-ubiquitous Walkman and
3.5-inch floppy disk drives, launched in 1980.
How did Sony find these foothold applications? Morita and a trusted group of
about five associates observed and questioned what people really were trying
to get done. They looked for ways that miniaturized, solid-state electronics
might help a population of less skilled and less affluent people to accomplish,
more conveniently and at less expense, the jobs they were already trying to get
done through awkward, unsatisfactory means.
There's other innovations, such as Honda inventing the trail bike (there were previously only road motorcycles).
As an example of creativity, there's Hayao Miyazaki. While he is a perfectionist, there must be some tolerance for experiment, exploration, discovery - else there can be no original creation.
Everyone misses the point. Japanese are innovating, but the ingrained American values make most of us blind to the Japanese approach to innovation.
Japanese aren't copying they are embracing an idea, comprehending it, and improving it. They could be inspired by anything, like any of us, but there has been much to be inspired by in the US over the last 50 some years. We all do this, but while americans focus on price per unit, Japanese focus on quality.
As I've mentioned elsewhere the subtle but powerful core difference between Japanese and Americans (quality vs quantity) form the foundation of two different emergent systems. Although it sounds simple it is a profound difference at scale.
This is why Japanese are very innovative, but most americans simply don't see it. Japanese had broadcast HD in the early 90s, and phones that could play TV 6 years before the iPhone.
It is also funny to the original that asked if japanese can essentially do "Lean".
Umm, Lean is just a copy of the Toyota Way that has been infected with american/euro values.
Constant improvement is Japanese. Americans use it to drive the cost low in order to maximize profits, japanese use it to maximize quality in order to maximize profits.
That's a mischaracterisation of my comment. Toyota is about improvement/perfecting (Deming's "quality", Six Sigma).
The examples I gave are about new product categories. To repeat one of them: before Sony, there was no transistor radio. They created not just one, but several new product categories - twelve, by Christensen's count. (Unfortunately, Sony didn't create any new product categories without the founder. e.g. the playstation was a great product, but consoles were an established product category.)
That is, it's not the getting better at something, but the creation of something new to get better at (hence Christensen's interest, as the coiner of disruptive innovation).
[ BTW: I can't help but think that the post-war period in Japan somehow enabled this creation of new product categories. ]
I mean when someone says "What is the highest quality car?" - no one says "[Toyota|Mazda|Honda|Izuzu]"... though they might say one of those if you ask about the 'cheapest'... which is counter to your point.
I'm not talking about build quality perse - its the process of removing constraints to the end product to maximize efficiency while maintaining or improving quality.
German cars are fantastic I agree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way
You are describing TOC (Theory of Constraints)[0], which predates "The Toyota Way"/"Toyota Production Systems" by ~20 years. It is a distinctly american philosophy that Toyota imported and are a great example of their implementation (As are BMW, VW, and Mercedes).
I think toyota are unique in how they incorporate their suppliers into their own processes, basically applying TOC beyond the walls of their own factory, which as far as I'm aware is/was quite innovative.
Toyota Way was published as a management buzzword in 2001, but its core "kaizen" long predates ToC.
(But is credited to Deming bringing the idea to Japan)
Also, ToC and that horribly written "novel" _The Goal_ is the most oversold management buzzword ever. It is super famous because it was the first "agile" fad to get buzz in the modern era of mass communication.
ToC is a pretty influential piece in the realm of systems thinking, not sure you can dismiss it as just buzzwords given it's obvious application across multiple industries (despite what you think of The Goal).
Kaizen is just a word. It's (literally) like saying "improvement" long predates ToC... well of course, but it has no context.
Very cool - thank you. The method of thought I agree is definitely more than buzzwords. Problem is movements that use it and have no idea what improvement actually looks like. These lean movements happening now are ridic.
Taiichi Ohno published the original "Toyota Production System: Beyond Large-Scale Manufacturing" in 1978 (the English translation was published in 1988), while Goldratt's "The Goal" was published in 1984.
Japan was known for making cheap low quality products much like China is now. It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder. Which suggests there culture has less to do with perfection than you might think.
If anything it's the strong Yen which is forcing their hand. They can't make a profit importing materials and making cheap products without focusing on automation.
They made cheap products because they were asked to, because back then Japan had cheap labor. These products weren't considered fit for domestic consumption (only foreigners would want that junk), and their own standards of material goods were always high. I'm sure that something similar could be said for the Chinese.
In my experience, Chinese society is actually much more "American" than Japanese is. Both China and America are fine with doing a half-assed job if it works, and self-assured about effective kludges in a way that Japan is not even about near-perfection. And of course, both are hustling and proud and know they're the center of the world.
> It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder.
Depends on what you mean by "recent". In my mind, recent means within ~10 years. However, Japan started turning things around in the late 80s. We're approaching the 30 year mark of high quality Japanese products and, to me, that's no longer considered recent.
> They can't make a profit importing materials and making cheap products without focusing on automation.
But the article is wider in scope than just manufacturing, it's about the entire culture. It's everything from manga/anime to whiskey, Music (Ever hear of Babymetal? Now that's innovation), Kobe beef, to even porn. Those things aren't produced on an assembly line.
>Japan was known for making cheap low quality products much like China is now. It's only relatively recently that they moved up the quality ladder.
Perhaps you mean the cheap radios, cameras, vehicles etc of post-war Japan. Those were made to rebuild their economy, and from a starting point of almost great desolation.
Go back a few decades from WWII, and you'll find out that for centuries before Japan made extremely high quality products, from swords and teapots, to furniture and jewelry.
To the point that European and American artifacts of the same type and same era look like the Dell Ditty compared to the iPod Touch.
I have used plenty of japanese cars and japanese electronics to know that the japanese are NOT perfectionists in general. Fastidious workers yes, but that don't make perfection.
well said and i completely agree. That said, the story of the hamburger maker is instructive. While it is true that many people in Japan practically lose their minds with the stress of contemplating perfection or failing to achieve perfection, this is the negative aspect of the mindset. The positive version, the version that drove that hamburger guy to success, is that anything you put your mind to doing, you should do with the intention of aiming for perfection. that may require years of practice and iterative improvement, but ANY task you decide to do is not worth doing half assed. I have seen people working in fast food serving water the best way it possibly could be done. They were not being paid extra for it, there is no tipping. It just reflects an inner pride of excellence.
That said, I think many people or even most of society misses that angle, and get cought up in the stressful negative side of perfection, leading to various horrible outcomes.
This, started doing Kendo for a little bit, at first it's fine, you haven't as they say, crossed the line of competency. Once you're allowed the armor, everything changes, the line is crossed, and you most definitely are held to hire standards. The shaming, perfecting and goal of mastery is all there as you say.
I think this is just a massive over generalisation.
Sure so you have an example of perfect pizza.
How about WWII... that didn't really go perfectly for them? Or their economy being a complete shambles ever since. Or how about their Nuclear plants, or their response to failed nuclear plants. Selection bias is a pretty powerful beast, "All japanese are perfectionists, look at the pizza" isn't a compelling argument.
It's pretty clear Japan, just like everyone else, screw things up, and are slack/lazy, etc. There are not 129 million perfectionists... just 129 million people living out there lives in a modern developed economy with a fetish for foreign culture.
Yes you are right, this is massive over generalization, and I am rather unhappy with my wording, unfortunately I can not edit my comment anymore. In my culture these almost „polemical statements“ are rather accepted and interpreted differently. I found especially english speaking people have a very hard time understanding my intentions. I should have known better.
Obviously there are not 129 million perfectionists, that was particularly misleading.
However I would claim that Japanese are more likely to favor and reward perfectionism than any other culture I experienced. I am only talking about a trend I may have observed.
As I implied in another thread. Germans seems pretty good at the 'perfection' side of things in their culture.
Which given Japan and Germany's history makes me believe the mindset of 'perfection' or continuous improvement/innovation comes from germany, rather than Japan.
Much of it actually came from W. Edwards Deming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming), who taught it to the Japanese after World War II. The top prize for quality in Japan carries his name.
He was American; we've forgotten (or never learned), but they took it to an extreme.
I wouldn't say he gave them perfection, but rather that he tought some companies how to achieve the perfection they already desired from mass manufactured goods.
Oh, I am Austrian (culturally very close to Germany) and I worked in a German company in Tokyo. I am not alone with my opinion, that Japanese are taking perfectionism to a whole new level, actually harming productivity.
Not at all. I was responding to the over generalisation that "Japanese are perfect" (to paraphrase).
The commenter has since pointed out his intent further, but my core point is, the traits people are saying are Japanese seem to stem from distinctly western sources (Demming, and Germany both being mentions).
But this whole idea Japan are 'perfectionists' is just racial stereotypes. The only thing Japanese people are (in general) is Japanese.
Just to make it clear: perfect and perfectionist are very, very different things. You cannot paraphrase one into the other at all.
In order to asses whether it's an stereotype or not, we have to set up some kind of measure of perfectionism. Otherwise we have to rely on anecdotes. My anecdotes, having lived in Germany and very briefly in Japan, match that of the original post: I was continuously baffled with the attention to detail displayed everywhere in Tokyo. It's just in a whole different level. And that of course does not make them perfect (what does that even mean?). Whether this attitude historically stems from Europe, is a second order tangent.
Your argument seems to be: Japanese are not particularly perfectionist (no more than Colombians, Danish, Turkish for example). But if they were, it's because they took it from the Germans. I found this confusing.
Indeed, look at the domains of civilian aviation (Japan Airlines Flight 123, where the sound caused by an incorrect repair was ignored for years, and let's not even get into how face is more important than saving lives, see also the Kobe earthquake response) and nuclear power.
I realized long before Fukushima that Japan's nuclear safety culture was impossibly awful, and I'm afraid I have to agree with those who say they have no business running serious reactors.
I have to admit to a huge amount of respect for the Japanese culture - problems not withstanding. Its ability to distill "essence", as exemplified in the article, and its huge respect for craftsmanship just leave me in awe.
It's hard not to have a crush on the japanese when you can relate to all this. I recently walked a man to his destination for 10-15 mins, because giving directions / pointing on his map "left too much room for error" as you concisely put it. All so I didn't fail as some anonymous directions-giver. It's just something you expect to get right.
But I don't desire 'perfection' in anything, I simply have standards that don't degrade. Think of TV talent shows, and the horrible people you get to see during the auditions. These people lost their standards somewhere along the line.
Friendly advice: you should think twice before posting long comments where you systematically examine racial generalizations (and dare I say it: stereotypes!) you find to be anecdotally valid.
It's this sort of "reasoning by anecdote" that, while convincing to the individuals relating them, can easily mislead others into believing your conclusions are rational.
I enjoyed reading his comment and commentary on life as he saw it in Japan. Don't admonish the poster because you think his audience (we) might be idiots.
I enjoyed your comment, as I have enjoyed many comments here on HN that quite thoughtfully and often eloquently take the time to provide a personal context and, yes, anecdote, to a more generally reported circumstance.
Don't worry about it. I -- for one ;-) -- think your comment was appropriate and useful, in this context.
(For example, it provides me with some additional insight to my own occasional interactions with Japanese culture. Most useful, to me.)
Nor do I mean to be overly critical of the critiquing response. Yes, we do need to be aware of anecdote versus corroborated fact. But, as one other respondent has commented, we make some assumption that those on HN can judge this for themselves.
--
This comment meant in good spirit, all around. And yes, it's just my opinion.
Total disagreement with your premise. Having experienced a place and a culture, it is perfectly reasonable to gain a sense of the uniquely different cultural attitudes and priorities that are prevalent in a society. Trying to relate such impressions to someone who has not been seeing for ten years with the same eyes, inevitably we choose anecdotal stories to illustrate the broad impression it conveys, not just to say 'this one time i saw something and this is my whole dataset'.
You claim to disagree with my premise, but you did not address the premise of my statement.
I did not say it was unreasonable to "gain a sense of the uniquely different cultural attitudes and priorities that are prevalent in a society".
Based on your analysis, I think you have misinterpreted both the intent and premise of my comment.
What I actually said was precisely what I did say: that you should not be quick to publicly espouse these generalizations that you have anecdotally observed. To a general audience of people who do not know you, the words that you write on here are the only basis we have on which to understand you as a person, short of getting to know you personally.
Perhaps you have never been on the receiving end of a racial stereotype or generalization, even an "innocent" one. Even if the comments are not made with malicious intent, and believe me I know the OP had absolutely no malicious intent at all, stereotypes can and do make some people uncomfortable to hear.
Why is that? Well, there are lots of reasons. If for nothing else, it makes the member of the group in question the "Other". If only for a brief moment in time the individual ceases to exist; their racial characteristics are being now being discussed, rationalized, and analyzed by the others in the room.
I really just wanted to give my honest advice to a nice guy (the OP), that it would be wise to avoid allowing this sort of discussion be associated with him as a person, unintentionally immortalized by the internet.
I understand your suggestion and your point is well meaning, but you are saying no one should ever write downfor others to read, their own experiences or impressions, of things they have seen. In your original comment and this reply you repeatedly use the word "race" or "racial" but the article is about a culture and the comment you are so against is someone commenting on their experience living in that culture. would you have all stories about a particular place be written only by its inhabitants? i think you would find there are precious few, because we do not and cannot see the culturally unique attitudes and behaviors that so differeniate where we are raised from all other places, precisely because everything seems just so mundane and normal with no frame of outside reference.
If we all shy away from discussing the interesting and unique different perspectives of different cultural and social norms and objectives, we lose the opportunity to be inspired by one another.
I really dont care if someone later in the future discovers that i said i had an impression of something i saw in a society, and i dont think people need to be shielded from hearing what outsiders think of their society.
As for your suggestion that i have probably not been on the receiving end of such observations, as a non-japanese living in a country that has almost no foreigners percentage-wise, yes, i am aware of what it is like to be on the receiving end of blanket generalizations about "americans" "foreigners" "californians" and other groups, usually by people who have never travelled more than a few km by train from their home town. That kind of empty and idiotic thinking has nothing whatsoever to do with someone simply describing what they have seen with their own personal experience in a foreign land.
There is such a thing as culture, and different cultures have different characteristics and values. This is well known to ethnologics and social scientists, and has been studied extensively.
Those are not "racial generalizations" (and the fact that the Japanese are asian has little to do with that, it could have as easily been about differences between French and German attitudes).
Of course you can find Japanese who are totally sloppy and against the description given above. But you wouldn't find a Japanese culture where sloppiness is OK, and shame is not important.
Outliers exists everywhere -- but the importance of observation is to find larger patterns and be able to summarily understand your subject. Science starts with labelling things -- and it's perfectly rational.
And of course, observations and conclusions can be corrected as more data arrive.
Thanks for sharing. Japanese fanaticism over other cultures fascinates me. It's copying but with a uniquely Japanese undertone. It doesn't fit the easy sound bites of American generalization.
Not to be a dick, but as someone who lived and worked in Japan for about 10 years your hypothesis is totally wrong.
The Japanese do many things well, but if you ever take a look at the software they produce you will realize very quickly that "perfection" is nowhere to be found and there are many industries where this is true.
I know the pizza place you are referring to in Namba Parks. The pizza is indeed incredible. However, how much of that is simply an alignment of my sense of taste? I know people who would eat that pizza and feel like it was garbage. A quick look at all of the varieties of crust and the holy wars that ensue when discussing them lends credence to this possibility.
>The pizza is indeed incredible. However, how much of that is simply an alignment of my sense of taste?
Little I'd say. Judging cooking is not just about "taste". Even if some people don't like some dish, quality fresh ingredients and proper preparation are not debatable for example.
So, that some people might hate that pizza and love Domino's, or prefer some other kind of crust, doesn't mean much with regards to the quality of the restaurant. Other stuff matters.
W. David Marx has been doing wonderful analysis of Japan and this phenomenon of trend adoption/synthesis/evolution—specifically with regard to fashion but he's covered many other topics as well—at http://neojaponisme.com for years now.
Don't lose your weekend to the archive. Or, you know, do.
> Dylan is, in fact, the bar’s reason for being: Japanese fans come here to watch his concert videos, listen to his tapes and relive the ’60s in America, a time and place almost none of them witnessed firsthand.
Are there any places in America where one may do this today?
I've found that a lot of (all?) major cities in America have throw-back diners and similarly themed restaurants (I don't know any specific to Dylan mind you).
This is hardly accurate. Cultures regularly "throw away" and then later rediscover (re-popularize) pieces of their own historical culture / identity. It has nothing to do with it being preserved by another culture (such that if it weren't, it could have never existed again).
That's true, the rediscovery of American heritage clothing may have happened anyway, but I have to imagine the boom in American workwear/sportswear has been made dramatically easier for modern designers thanks to the Japanese otaku that have studiously collected, documented it (Free & Easy, Lightning Magazines) and continued to produce it (Buzz Ricksons, Real McCoy). Due to this, a route to revitalizing an American heritage brand is to simply hire a great Japanese designer. If no one had cared I do think it would have been a much more difficult process and I do think it would have been likely that some knowledge could have been lost.
The focus on material things highlights the problem. They have copied everything, but failed to capture the spirit by not acting like their idols. I would like to see the Japanese people act, rebel, and change the world.
All I see is escapism, ironically similar to the escapism Westerner's find in Japanese culture.
I hope patio11 can comment on this. I've always enjoyed reading his take on Japan. He is extremely well qualified to compare American and Japanese culture: he was born and raised in the US, moved to Japan after graduating and got married there.
The only other country I have been to outside of my own country, is America. And I must say I loved the people and the culture there.
If you look at all the small differences between way of life in America and different parts of the world, you will start appreciating all cultures for what niceties they offer.
The Japanese culture and way of life were systematically gutted during and after WWII, after which they slowly came to adopt American norms. Defeated people have imitated the victors time and again throughout history. This has little to do with how amazing the other culture is.
I find little to celebrate in the Americanization of yet another unique & rich culture.
Japanese culture, though very "western", is not very American. Many essential American cultural elements such as religion, guns, cars, libertarians, feminism, and no sex on TV are missing, and it is certainly not as individualist.
It's not a great place to be a programmer, though - people I know working at pixiv (a modern foreigner-friendly web startup) aren't paid even entry-level US salaries.
But with pixiv you can see one of the good sides of Japan. It's basically DeviantArt, but amateur artists on pixiv have often practiced for years and their art is technically good, whereas DeviantArt posters are all more than satisfied with their weird fetish art they drew in MS Paint.
You could try Korea, which is a lot more like America. Specifically, Texas.
There were also some pretty twisted counter-examples of not getting Americana quite right. I ran across an outer wear store named 'Violence Jack Off', display windows crowded with black leather jackets.[Edit]