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Cisco is well known to do annual layoffs, this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

Their hiring process is remarkably bad for a company that otherwise is so well run. My most recent experience was them throwing a workday link at me to fill something out before we even had the initial phone screen and the forms/ui was so poorly designed that I stopped responding to them.

someone has to maintain a he products

More AI?

Good luck with that.

I'm sure that more AI will solve that problem too.

Almost 99% sure that They hired a consultant firm (MBB) that told them who to cut; this is pretty standard practice now at public tech corps. Especially if EMs weren’t in the loop. This looks like purely a margin improvement exercise thats hiding weaknesses in the company’s financial performance.

EMs are never in the loop for layoffs for companies of this size, because the whole company would just get forewarning of the layoffs

Thats usually correct for these “surprise” layoffs. For the ones that are announced in advance there is a bit more coordination (like the meta/amazn ones).

At Amazon managers absolutely are not in the loop for layoffs. I would very much doubt they are at meta.

I’m sure they don’t know what they are doing or necessarily care, but I’m still curious what the consultants even claim to be looking at to make the list? Job description, git activity, team level profitability, salary, etc?

They probably claim all of it, but likely only job description.

"You have 20 guys that can code, so you can get rid of two of them".


Employees are treated as a cost which is why you often see the strongest performers inexplicably laid off (since they are likely compensated higher). In situations like this they don’t care about productivity; leadership is given a list and they can move a few people around but for most its game over once they’re on it.

Wow! Is there any good read on that, like even if a "YouTube" show or something? This is quite interesting.

If you know anyone that works at MBB they would be happy to share this with you; if you’re in SF just hit any bar for a weeknight happy hour and you will 100% find someone.

Yeah, honestly this is where LLMs shine since they were trained on so many MBA/HBS materials. Just remember to ask your questions in a way that praises neoliberalism and you'll unlock even more secrets about how they fuck over and alienate workers.

From some of the previous decisions taken by Brian, and the quality of his discourse on twitter, it feels like he has succumbed to something that afflicts a lot of rich people with frail egos: surrounding themselves with yes-men, they rarely engage with the reality as-is and instead with a make believe one. Elon Must also suffers from this as do the founders of AirBnB.

It wasn't that long ago that, in SV, the dominant values were humility, kindness and openness to all views (even if behind the scenes there was the ruthlessness demanded by capitalism). The last few years have seen this value system corrode, and it seems like its hurting everyone. From the tech workers constantly churning for no good reason, to the tech executives sequestered in their own thought bubbles until reality finally hits them (usually, too late to change).


> "as do the founders of AirBnB."

This resonates but I can't put my finger on why for the founders of AirBnB. Do you have examples? Obviously true for Elon.

It seems like the previous generation of founders were always paranoid that their companies could/would fail in an instant, which led to the management styles of Andy Grove, Gates, Jobs etc (and I'd argue Larry and Sergey as well). That mindset meant they knew they couldn't afford to be surrounded by yes man and their egos were secure enough when challenged by their underlings.

Despite the intensity of all three, you hear stories of how Gates only respected people who could credibly argue back against him, Jobs empowered his team, etc. The current generation of founders seem to believe their own mythical BS to such an extent that anyone who disagrees with them is culled from the organization, resulting in a natural selection effect of only the yes-men survive.


Ah do you remember the whole Founder Mode trend? It faded just as fast as it started because it was meaningless. And it has had doubtful impact on the product itself.

Makes sense. Also remember him saying something like, the founder is always right, even when everyone else thinks you're crazy. Couldn't find the clip of him saying this, so hopefully not hallucinating it.


The real solution should be a massive intercity bullet train program that connects major transit hubs, like the interstate highway buildout. The massive infrastructure spend would kickstart the US economy and provide thousands of jobs.

Bullet trains would be good in tighter networks of cities. Southern Cal, Acela corridor.

But I'm just not sure the demand would be there for longer distances unless it's so cheap that it's worth the extra time.

Like what's China to Kunmung, a 6 hour flight vs a 12 hour train, at a comparable cost?


even SF to LA would have trouble with a high speed rail because the price would likely be the same as a flight

In Spain, a similar length high speed train route would be Madrid-Barcelona, that's 400miles and takes 2h 30min.

If you offer me the same price for flying than for taking the high speed train, I'll take the train every time.

In practice it'll take less travel time, no security lines or theater (no problem bringing your water bottle or whatever), you can bring more luggage, you can stand up/walk/visit the bar during the trip, you go from city center to city center so you don't have to spend an extra in taxis... I just arrive there 20-30 minutes before the train leaves and that's all.


there will be no theater until a terrorist attacks it and then it will be exactly the same

We've had terrorists attacks on trains around here, and the only theater we have is a super quick xray scan of our baggage.

Oh I don't know — I travel the Boston-DC route a lot and fly only because it's significantly cheaper than taking the train. If prices were comparable I would take the train even without it being "high speed", I think there's a market for high speed rail if the prices were as low as flights!

Sounds good if you live on the East Coast.

Even with Japanese level high speed rail NYC to LA still takes much much longer than flying.

You need to buy land. Disrupt wildlife, and various ecosystems.

The government should of bailed out Spirit instead. They served a public good.

Allowing lower to middle income people to travel helps everyone.


Trains have been proven to be able to go at least 375mph [0]. That would make NYC->SF take 6.9 hours to travel the 4162 km. The current average flight time from NYC to SF is 6.7 hours.

So, it's at least technically possible.

China is doing R&D on a partial-vacuum train (basically Musk's hyperloop thing) with a target of 1,243 mph[1]. That's probably a pipe dream, but worth mentioning nonetheless.

> The government should of [sic] bailed out Spirit instead.

I'd be okay with this if all the taxpayers were granted equal shares that their collective money could have purchased at an imputed no-bailout price.

0: L0 Series SCMaglev

1: T-Flight train


> The current average flight time from NYC to SF is 6.7 hours.

What's your source for this? I take this flight a lot and I find it hard to believe it's more than 5.5-5.75 on average. Looking at the last few weeks for one of them[0] supports my experience.

Maybe your number has TSA/airport time included.

[0] https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua1777


It's probably scheduled times. I find that time in the air ends up being about an hour less than the time on the ticket.

> "China is doing R&D on a partial-vacuum train (basically Musk's hyperloop thing) with a target of 1,243 mph"

When the vacuum fails - mechanical failure, human error, natural disaster, attack - air is going to rush into the tube. The speed of sound is how fast air molecules move, so train doing 1243mph might hit into a wall of air coming the other way at 767mph for a 2000mph collision. Don't think "wind isn't that fast", think vacuum implosion[1][2]. The weight of 60+ miles of atmosphere pushing down trying to force air into the tunnel. The principle that moves atmospheric steam engines. The train will then be blown backwards into the train coming behind it for another 1000mph+ collision.

This will be the Hindenburg of the Hyperloop.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/j-s5Ut5cm50

[2] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/if9xxrRouRY


That's straight math. Not assuming any stops or slow downs.

According to Gemini this hypothetical train would take about 18 hours.

It would also cost hundreds of billions of dollars and a decade to build.

Doesn't do much for seeing Uncle John next Tuesday.

I like trains. I like them a lot. But they don't work over long distances. Particular when you have dozens of state and city jurisdictions to cross.

Each of them get a vote.

Honestly I'd be happy just to have quality HSR on the East Coast. Boston to Richmond takes like 12 hours right now.

Maybe the West Coast could get a Seattle to San Diego route.


18 hours with seats comfortable enough to sleep in, easy to get up and move around to lounge cars, wifi, and plenty of pretty views? Add some showers onboard and you're totally set. I think there are plenty of people who would take that over flying. A direct flight from NYC to San Francisco is almost 7 hours, not counting the wildly variable time needed to get to the airport and make it to your gate, and then you're still facing delays and prolonged discomfort.

Yes, or trains with comfortable sleeper coaches. This is how a lot of intercity rail works in India. I took the Delhi-Bombay Rajdhani express all the time when I was younger; would catch the train in the evening, tasty dinner and breakfast provided on train. The views were breathtaking; its the first time the vastness of India became so clear to me (and how many people were still engaged in farming). It would be so nice to have that in the US.

> It would also cost hundreds of billions of dollars and a decade to build. Doesn't do much for seeing Uncle John next Tuesday.

You just described the building of the interstate highway system, but I doubt there’s a person alive who would say it wasn’t worthwhile.

I fear Americans are simple to selfish to have any desire to do time consuming expensive things that will improve their country long term. They just want benefits for themselves , now.


I think Americans aren’t as selfish as most people believe; it’s just that they don’t know any better. Education and awareness is key to change that.

I don't think it is neither education nor awareness, our core problem and what is an eventual doom of this country lies in the fact that with the two political parties that we have and extremely non-functional government we are no longer capable of doing long-term things. whatever party X tries to do, they get a few years and then when party Y takes over their first order of business is to dismantle everything that party X did (tried to do) in the previous two years. while china can create "10-year plan" the america is no longer capable of creating any such thing and this is destroying the country, little by little...

I would like to fix our health care system first.

Meanwhile, the government could announce a bailout of Spirit tonight.

Wouldn't take nearly as much effort.


> I would like to fix our health care system first

Good ol Zoidberg once again says “why not both?”

If you don’t fix anything else until healthcare is fixed, you’ll be fixing nothing until the end of time


Far too expensive

Why do people want to generate jobs? I'd rather generate a jobless utopia where we all do art.

Because today the options are "jobs exist" or "people starve in the street".

Starvation is not a likely outcome from job loss in the western world.

homelessness and hunger is a real danger in the west. I got homeless in 2025... Extremely hard to get out.

Hate to break it to you but the average guy that does manual labour would more likely become a criminal than a musician if you deleted his job.

What's that saying about idle hands.

Jobs root people to their communities and give them purpose in life.


Scenario: It's Friday night. You don't have to work tomorrow. Are you more likely to pull out your hammer and chisel and work on a classical marble sculpture -or- get shit faced at a dive bar? Hey, maybe the vomit splatters will evoke Jackson Pollock!

Check out the etymology of “utopia”

if you ever visit Austin do try Kerby Lane Cafe/Magnolia Cafe.


There's few places I've left a 1 star review, and sadly, Kerby was it.


I was expecting a more nuanced article that talked about the “Suez Moment” in America but this is basically a (not even a good) critique of deindustrialization.


I don't expect anything from the guy who declared self driving cars are easy, everyone is just doing it wrong, and he could do it better in a just a year; 5 years ago. The fame totally went to his head :P It is somewhat common issue for Nobel award winners, in this case the scope is limited "I am great at security and reverse engineering, that makes me an expert for anything IT related".


> self driving cars are easy

Self-driving cars are easy though, 12-year-olds make them in high school STEM classes. You just give it a light sensor so it can follow a strip of white tape down the middle of the "road" and let it go from one place to the other.

Oh, until it hits an obstruction.

Okay well you add some sort of bumper switch to it so if it hits an obstruction it stops and backs up, to find a route round it.

Ah right, well, let's see, that didn't work so well when the obstruction was much smaller and squashier than the car.

Let's have some sort of distance sensors that - ah bollocks, they pick up everything including objects beside the road, and stop the car.

Okay what about some sort of camera and machine vision system? Great, that lets it "see" the road ahead and steer or brake to avoid obstacles! But it turns out it now needs to understand a bit of physics, at least enough to stop it booting it wide open through a sharp bend and ending up shiny side down.

Right so now it will drive at a sensible speed through bends, use a camera to look for obstructions, LIDAR to look for obstructions too, and it can actually follow road markings quite well, and even pick up speed from signs.

Ah. It can't actually be used around other vehicles because it can't anticipate what they're going to do, and keeps getting into bad situations that it then needs to brake and swerve to avoid.

Oh well, turns out self-driving cars aren't easy after all.


Nobel Nacre.. The nobelprize is hyper destructive to the scientists receiving it. Its hard to one up from there or return to your field- everyone is bombarding you with high expectations. You can only fail after you received olympic gold. Thus, as scientists inflict change on society, and society hates change, it is like a oyster, trying to protect itself from a grain of sand, wrapping it in Nacre, protecting itself from further change, by encapsulating the changing factor which remains neutered from its ability to do science.


Nobel prize is usually awarded many years after the work was done and by the time its awarded the scientist is usually well past their prime


GP might be making a prediction about Demis Hassabis, who happens to break the mold you've just described

(but he is not a member of "the Physics community" so their expectations won't mean anything to him?)


I don't quite see the Suez Crisis analogy quite working because China (the rising power) is not really involved against the US (the waning power).


China is selling the world solar panels while the US is making gas unaffordable.


The US passed up multiple opportunities to fund its own more foundational solar industry


The US does a terrible job trying to throw government cash at problems. See: Solyndra, PPP, the US’s inability to build ships, or most recently the debacle of Biden’s $7.5B rollout of EV chargers that only managed to build a few dozen stations in 3 years.


This is exactly how the opportunities were passed up. I am convinced its in no small part because of the unrealistic expectations of a very high success ratio with a small number of experiments. The US throws a lot of money at relatively few bets while China funds entire competitive markets at smaller scales and lets the ecosystem vet them.

There is also political alignment in funding next generation technologies even if it's disruptive of established industries. Lobbying of fossil fuel industry did not stop renewable factory investments in China. Whereas in the US any failure of a renewable investment was highlighted by fossil fuel lobbyists as a pretense to stop the investments


PPP was a ton of small bets, with rampant fraud and waste (and a stupid fundamental idea).

The EV chargers were supposed to fund hundreds of stations in each of the 50 states: only a few dozen were built in 4 years.

If the government focuses on one big project, like the SLS, it becomes rife with pork and clumsily slow.

But there’s hardly a better track record with splitting a program up among applicants or states (see SNAP, rampant fraud in “autism” services, PPP, or homelessness in California)


> the debacle of Biden’s $7.5B rollout of EV chargers that only managed to build a few dozen stations in 3 year

You've fallen for disinformation.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-electric-vehicle-charg...

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/dec/05/michael-ru...


You are wrongly claiming that I said spent. The $7.5B is allocated, half the time of the program has elapsed, and a few dozen chargers were built. The program, by any modern standard, was a failure.

From your own article: By early this year, only four states — Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania and Hawaii — had opened stations funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, The Associated Press reported in March. A Washington Post article published the next day said this amounted to just seven stations.“

So yes, a $7B+ allocation managed to only open a handful of stations in 3 years.

Meanwhile, in a similar 3 year period, China built the Beijing–Shanghai high speed rail line: approx. 3.5 years for ~1,300 km.

Are you really going to claim that the EV charger program has been the successful, rapid deployment necessary to enable a pivot to EVs?


Yeah it's a very short-sighted article. Taking a quote like this:

> I can’t believe those who seriously try and say America’s value is in consuming.

as a case against outsourcing manufacturing really doesn't understand the value that societies create when they are on the forefront of innovation.

Maybe, just maybe, at a certain point physical labour is not the best way to use your working population, but instead, you know, services, innovation, etc?

America has been doing pretty good in that regard over the past few decades.

(For disclosure, I'm not from America, but still think this is a silly article)


China is at the forefront of innovation. America is not, except for financial innovation a.k.a. the best ways to get money out of people without doing actual work.


They’re transitioning to the forefront of innovation, but they’re definitely not at the forefront yet. They’re good at implementing things, not yet innovation.

They desperately do need to do that, though, because manufacturing alone isn’t going to grow their economy any further, as wages in China are already becoming high enough that they’re becoming less attractive to foreign investors.

They’re strategically well positioned to take over the west in the next few decades, but to argue that China is already leaving America et al behind in innovation is silly.

If you think that the US is corrupt when it comes to money, and that that’s the only innovation that the US is currently leading in, I heartily invite you to actually explore China.

(And I say this as someone who lives in South-East Asia)


>manufacturing alone isn’t going to grow their economy any further.

But why does the economy need to grow? If you can manufacture everything you need, and you have access to the raw resources, what else do you need as a country. In what sense is growing your economy with VC scams like Juicero better than actually having industrial output?


I just realised that this is why SV centre-right is lowkey obsessed with Japan.

Contrast with the SV-aligned execs-turned-thought-leaders from decades ago that used to claim that it is not in the cultural DNA of Japan to innovate. They don't say that now, but they still look to Japan for inspiration as Steve Jobs used to do before it got fashionable

Today, Japan has a diverse economy but one could argue in good faith that its the lack of financial innovation that's holding them back

(Lack of raw resources very much a red herring-- as ever, something that the almost perennially rightwing Japanese government has never gotten less OCD about)

Another "mesocosm": Hollywood is _quietly_ looking East for "cultural innovation", bc the studio system "knows" that not even Korea can catch up. Is bigtech this certain? Do they have to MJGA before MAGA?


China is a the forefront of catching up. Don't mistake that for innovation. China isn't building the best chips, that's Taiwan with really Netherlands doing the hard part. China is catching up to European car makers except they've largely caught up to Tesla in the powertrain (I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons). In the AI space obviously China is just running after playing catch up. Biology, catch up. Chemistry, catch up. Physics, catch up.

Where is China leading?


Despite my handle I am not Chinese lest I am accused of harboring any bias. Anyway, I decided to look up what is going on. Apparently, things are nuanced. On the one hand China lags behind when it comes to semiconductors, large commercial aircraft, some pharmaceutical innovation. On the other hand,

> When evaluating the top 10 percent of high-quality scientific publications, ASPI finds that China surpasses the United States across all 8 critical technology domains. The gap is particularly pronounced in the energy and environment domain, where China accounts for 46 percent of top-tier publications compared to just 10 percent for the United States. Despite U.S. leadership in AI, China produces more top publications, contributing 30 percent versus 18 percent for the United States[0]

Basically, China dominates in batteries, solar, quantum communications, robotics deployment, high-speed rail, nuclear construction, autonomous vehicle deployment, manufacturing process innovation, patent volume in most categories

[0] https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/23/how-china-is-outper...


China is the world leader in Drones, Electric vehicles, Batteries, Solar Panels, Electronics, Robotics, High-Speed Rail, Industrial equipment, Nuclear energy, Telecommunications Equipment, Cameras, Shipbuilding, Scientific research, rapid mobile payments.

Tied for AI, Smartphones

Semiconductors, rockets, and aerospace are probably the only sectors china is behind in.

China is the most technologically advanced society on earth. They are far far ahead of anyone else in using technology to make society easier. Many government services can be handled easily on your phone.


> They are far far ahead of anyone else in using technology to make society easier. Many government services can be handled easily on your phone.

This is just a side effect of using technology to control the population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit_system


That's a propaganda you fell for. From the wiki page you linked

> There have been widespread misconceptions in media reports about a unified social credit "score" based on individuals' behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low or rewards if the score is high.


And America doesn't? Palantir, Ring and Flock Safety say hi.


In the US, the government still uses technology to control you, but you don't get convenient tax filing either.


Even if that is so, and surveilance capitalism is why the GPDR consent requests on half the websites I visit claim to have more "trusted partners" than there were pupils and staff combined in my seconday school, China are still ahead on those things.


I think it's less about blaming us for boycotting Tesla and more about blaming us for letting our entrenched interests in both oil extraction and ICE cars prevent us from investing in EV development and switching to them faster.


>I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons)

China taking over the EV market was always going to happen. for instance, BYD sold (tens of thousands of) their first EV a decade before Musk went from le wholesome space man to le evil nazi man.

besides, I don't think being boycotted by the terminally online folx has had much impact. luxury brands just don't do well during a recession, and the market for Tesla - US and Europe - is not doing so good, to put it mildly.



Its owner being a nazi white supremacist is "silly political reason" now? Oh my...


> I partly blame that on Americans boycotting Tesla for silly political reasons

What would be different in Tesla’s output if Americans didn’t start boycotting Tesla less than 2 years ago?

And I’m glad you think killing at least half a million kids in Africa to not even save any money, stealing all our social security data, etc are just “silly political reasons”.


> What would be different in Tesla’s output if Americans didn’t start boycotting Tesla less than 2 years ago?

Car companies do better if they sell cars. They also find it easier to sell cars if owning said car doesn't make you fearful some crazy person will smash it because of identity politics.

> And I’m glad you think killing at least half a million kids in Africa to not even save any money, stealing all our social security data, etc are just “silly political reasons”.

Oh, I'm not. But hurting Tesla and putting a break on saving the planet will do what exactly? Absolutely jack shit.

It's like that story about the guy who made nice Game Boy clones, and people figured out he was an arms dealer originally and started a campaign to boycott the Game Boy clone. What will this accomplish? Destroying someones moral and good business will force them to go back to their evil business. It's counterproductive as hell.


Tesla is not saving the planet and not necessary to save the planet.

The whole idea that this one company must be protected from any competition and fed money and support is absurd. Add to it the years of lies Musk engaged in and his nazi affiliations ... it is tripple absurd.


> Tesla is not saving the planet and not necessary to save the planet.

They were certainly a big part of it. They kickstarted the electrification of cars, which is no small feat. Now they're not really so important anymore because the other car brands got (justifiably) scared and followed.

> The whole idea that this one company must be protected from any competition and fed money and support is absurd. Add to it the years of lies Musk engaged in and his nazi affiliations ... it is tripple absurd.

I mean.. that's you making stuff up. I didn't say any of that. I will say that destroying random peoples cars because they bought a certain brand before even knowing what terrible things Musk was going to do is idiotic. It makes the people opposing Musk look like shrill karens that can't think for shit. Does this help or hurt the cause of stopping Musk from doing stupid shit? I think it hurts it.


Allowing chinese vehicles into the US would do more for saving the planet, if that's your goal.


No one forced Elon to kill a million Africans. He could have just like, not done that.


ok, any ideas for the best way to use our working population? soldiers, amazon vine reviewers? we have a lot of people with high lifestyle expectations (by global standards) and no interest in pursuing specialized education that allows them to participate in the future. and there may not be enough seats in the future.


Let’s wait until the hype actually lives up to the expectations before considering all these people redundant?


i don't consider them redundant, but lifestyle creep from the "american dream" combined with management culture viewing labor as a cost to be reduced is a compounding problem.


Has there ever been a positive story or product out of this wretched company; which has possibly destroyed billions in value across the US software sector by forcing everyone to use their disgustingly bad project management tool? When I interviewed there (and anecdotally from the people I know that worked there), at least they seemed like a nice place to work at. But alas even that had to be destroyed.


Nobody is forced to use it, they use it because it aligns with managers' incentives. Which are not related to ensuring technical work is completed effectively. Or having good visibility. Everything being obscure and hard to use allows you to paint the picture with your own words rather than the picture being painted right there on the computer screen plain as day.


> Nobody is forced to use it

If you consider choosing to leave a job of a tool a choice that people can easily make, then sure. Otherwise, yeah a good portion of employees don't have any say in the software their managers choose, and either use it or get let go


Sorry, no _business_ is forced to use it. Of course employees have to use the tools their workplace selects...


lol the only atlassian engineer I knew spent 3 months 4 times a year "working remotely" from various resorts across Europe, I'm sure the 4-hour review of javascript she did per month was really worth that plus the apartment in brooklyn.. absolutely insane


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