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Middle America peaks in High School. Local games are televised and commentated even during the regular season. The TV series Friday Night Lights is a reasonable reference as an outsider

My school wasn't like that. I assumed Varsity Blues was fiction. Or at least, kind of outdated.

Can any Americans confirm this?

Were your high school sports games televised and commentated?


In Texas HS Football is very much the central/highest tier of social status/standing in the community, and the stadiums they play in are bigger than small college stadiums elsewhere (and are televised.)

For football, yes. Although I think it only broadcast on some small cable TV channel that you had to get special access for. There definitely were small media crews at the games (I was in the band; I went to most of them).

One year I was there, the football team made it to the state championship, and got to play in one of the big 70K-seat stadiums the NFL teams use. About half of our small town bought tickets and went to it.

I just checked, looks like mine is one of many schools that streams games live on here: https://www.nfhsnetwork.com/


Really depends on where, and what sport.

If you're in an urban school in a big city, maaayyybe some of the basketball games depending on the specific school. E.g. if your school has people who everyone knows are going into the NBA draft, sometimes the more important games get put on television with commentators.

If you're in a suburban/rural school and it's (American) football or maybe baseball, quite possibly yes as a regular thing. Especially if you're at one of the 50++ high schools that has a 10,000+ capacity stadium.

Edit: yea and as other replier mentioned, there's some regional tendencies too.


> https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-high-school-...

Absolutely, there are three high school football stadiums with capacities over twenty thousand, in Ohio and Texas.


Oof wow, that's bigger than I realized. I knew there were a lot of big ones (10k+), but I didn't realize there was US highschool football being played in stadium bigger than the smallest EPL stadiums.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised given a lot of college stadiums are 50k+ capacity.


Eight of the top ten largest stadia in the world are for NCAA Football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_by_capacity


That's my personal experience growing up in a suburban area in the South (edit: in the 90s)

I embrace it at this point. It ends all the shilling of vibe coded tools at work that I have endured over the past year. Everyone can now make their own tools with zero obligation to coordinate beyond shared hardware resources

No employer is telling their employees to use tokens thoughtfully. They might even have token usage leaderboards. One of my team’s agents runs on Opus 4.6 for a fairly narrowly defined scope of a few MCPs and skills. But everyone’s getting their promos and bonuses based on this alone. Next year we’ll get another bonus when we save $1000/day by switching it to Qwen 32B on a Mac Studio

Rideshare drivers can speed

Is that supposed to be good?


once we've refactored humans out of driving, the speed limits can go way up

I don't think so.

Engineers design a road for 55. Police say make it 40 for $$ and pretext. Public says make it 60. Karen says make it 30. Politician says they don't care as long as Karen stops screeching, the public doesn't hate them and the police doesn't hate them. End result ->45

Refactoring the humans out would only change a couple of the less influential inputs to that equation. It might actually make it way worse if the public loses interest.


> Engineers design a road for 55.

Not always.

I think a lot of time, speed limits are set based on the expected amount of traffic, not the curvature or the road. For example, I-5 in the Portland area south of the OR-217 interchange has extremely gentle curves. You could take them at 100 mph and not risk losing grip.

Yet the limit is 55 mph anyways because that area is expected to have considerable traffic, with traffic merging on and off. The limit is kept low to keep collision speeds low.

But if every car was autonomous, that wouldn't be necessary. Autonomous cars can be far more cooperative than human drivers, even without inter-car communication. It's 4 lanes wide. We could let that left lane go 90 mph for the cars that don't need to be exiting any time soon, while the right lane travels slower because cars are either merging on or off. Human drivers suck at this kind of arrangement because we have slow-pokes that think "The limit is just a limit, I don't have to go that fast" and go 5 under the limit in whatever lane they feel like, combined with others that think being overtaken is a personal insult, people that think their lane is a birthright and don't let people merge ("I have to tailgate or else people get in front of me!"), and other toxic human behaviors.

Take the human out of the equation, and we can easily go faster than 55.


> I-5 in the Portland area south of the OR-217 interchange has extremely gentle curves.

Not even that, there is one curve on I-5 south of 217, it is otherwise a straight line until you get to Wilsonville (and before then it goes up to 65 mph at the intersection with 205).


Might increase as trust grows.

Can’t stop until cross traffic can simultaneously use intersections all at 100 miles an hour with inches to spare


>Can’t stop until cross traffic can simultaneously use intersections all at 100 miles an hour with inches to spare

Heck I'd just be happy with banked curves.


At minimum increased to what they would be

if driving was a privilege

and not treated as a de facto right,

only withheld as a last-resort due to the curse it can be in the US.


Theoretically, fully automated driving doesn't require traffic signals, as much lighting, guard rails, lane width, rumble strips, reflectors, signage, etc.

4 out of the 5 FAANGs hire RF engineers so… now?

The missing ending to this article is when companies whine for more immigration because they didn’t invest in the future to make sure a talent pipeline still existed locally.

I really hope this project continues to gain momentum. Apple Hardware + Linux is the least fscked OS running on the best hardware. MacOS continues to be a tire fire with endless bugs and churn between versions.

You should give Framework a try. It's been a flawless experience with Fedora. And with the upcoming Framework 13 Pro, battery life and trackpad are expected to be on par (or in the case of battery, even better than macos)

No, battery life isn't on par.

The only way to get the battery life Framework advertised is on Windows' 'Ultra Efficiency' mode which cuts CPU performance by 25-50%, lowers brightness by 30% and deprioritizes everything in the background to such an extreme that responsiveness of those is measured in seconds.

It is not comparable at all to M-series or Snapdragon laptops happily chugging along at full capability and getting (compared to AMD / Intel) stellar battery life.


They're talking about the new model announced, with a larger battery and ARM architecture. Not released yet, I don't think.

The new Framework Pros are still x86, but the newest Intel generation appears to provide a substantial boost to efficiency.

Also, jumping on the LPCAMM train early creates an eventual path for ARM boards without soldered RAM.

They have a new type of core on these they refer to as a "low-power efficiency core", which is probably what is enabling these "feats", but as one of the parents to this comment points out we're comparing Windows configured in "Ultra Efficiency" mode to Apple Silicon MacBooks at most configured in Low Power mode...

Anecdotally, comparing to recent (but still older than these) generations of Intel chips I can run my M2 Max MacBook Pro with 78% battery health for longer (without any special considerations) than colleagues running their Windows Intel laptops in Power Saver mode, while performing similar tasks.


The new model is Intel or amd unless I missed something. They said in the video the battery life was entirely from video playback, which can be run on efficiency mode

My apologies, I don't know where I got the ARM architecture part from. I really want one of those machines, but I guess if they can't approach MacBook battery life yet I'm stuck on MacOS for now.

There is a framework mainboard being made by a 3rd party vendor

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2026/arm-mainboard-for-fra...


I think they said 22 hours of video playback in the video. If it even gets half of that for normal usage I'd be sold, the only thing stopping me giving it a shot is they are currently more expensive than the MBP and I'm not sure if they are worth it until the first reviews come in

It's hard to imagine it'll come close to the complete MacBook package and it'll likely be similarly priced.

- Screen

- Speakers

- The unbelievable trackpad

- Battery life

- GPU performance (Linux gaming on this would be amazing)


Correct, it's in pre order now. It is actually x86 though, not arm

I’m pretty sure macOS safari doesn’t execute JavaScript on background windows/tabs.

When I play Bitburner, if I want to run it in the background, I have to run the game on Firefox or chrome. It’s a shame because safari actually gives best performance by quite a large margin.


The new Framework 13 Pro is undeniably really nice and a huge step up from the earlier Framework laptops. But the sad reality is that x86 processors are falling behind in performance. The Intel Core Ultra X7 358H is a whopping 35% slower than the M5 Pro (15 CPU 16 GPU) in both single core and multicore benchmarks, while the Framework 13 Pro with the 358H costs about the same as the Macbook Pro 14 with the M5 Pro ($2200 each).

Of course, currently Asahi only supports up to M2, so if you really want Linux, the Panther Lake should still outperform most of the 4 year old M2 devices. It remains to be seen which of the following can come sooner:

* new faster chips come out that support Linux

* Asahi finally supports M5

Right now it seems that the former is more likely to be true. But we shall see.


> But the sad reality is that x86 processors are falling behind in performance. The Intel Core Ultra X7 358H is a whopping 35% slower than the M5 Pro

35% is the generational difference between the M4 pro to the M5 pro¹. Don't drink Apple marketing koolaid: this has less to do with x86 falling behind than it has to do with Apple using their stash of gold to outbid the intel/AMD competition out of the latest TSMC capacity.

An M4 Pro 12c gets 32731 out of TSMC's 2nm-E².

An AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 gets 35093 out of TSMC's 4nm³.

The true unsung hero of the "Apple M miracle" is TSMC, not ARM, and Apple mostly in the sense that it has the deepest pockets.

With the first M chips, anyone who could afford to wait 18-24 months was pretty much where Apple was at. This decreased to 12-18 months in the last couple years. Panther lake signifies that it could further decrease to 9-12 months.

¹: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/6346vs6345vs7230vs6397v...

²: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-M4-Pro-12-cores-Processo...

³: https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.c365...


I really want this to be true but for me its not close. Maybe its better on the new 13 but its still night and day between my mac book and my FW 16 that's about a year old. My macbook works for days without a charge. My FW last maybe 6-8 hours on battery.

Don't get me wrong. I do really enjoy my FW but the mac hardware is still number one for me. I'd really love is an ARM based FW. Though if I could wave a magic wand it would be mac hardware running pure linux with no caveats. I really love seeing what Asahi is building


I've run all 3 major OSes before. MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works.

My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility.

My windows days were plagued with battery issues.

I feel like most Linux ricers wishs for a MacOS-like experience, except with more customisation. (Which is entirely possible now with the ricing on Mac)


> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility.

This is the kind of dated argument that really makes me dismiss most of the critics. I was running xubuntu as my main desktop since 2010 at least, switched to Debian + nix + XFCE in 2022 and switched to full-on nixOS in 2024. I never had issues with audio then and had to go out of my way to "break" audio on NixOS when I wanted to try pipewire instead of pulse.

> feel like most Linux ricers wises for a MacOS-like experience

I've put together a Hackintosh once, tried for a few weeks as the daily driver. Aside from being able to use tools that dealt with real-time audio processing, there was nothing else I wanted to copy or bring to my Linux system. It cemented my opinion that most software developers that keep touting the "superiority of MacOS" never gave a fair shot at Linux on decent hardware and were just rationalizing their prior choice.


Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login. I worked on it for a day, still couldn’t get any desktop except a terminal.Tried a different distro, it booted but no matter what resolution or refresh rate, the display showed severe artifacts when scrolling. Tried to fix it for a few days, gave up.

I am not a Linux novice, I have been using every major OS for decades at this point, but I’ll be damned if I didn’t install Windows, decrapify it, and everything just worked. You can say I should have done more research on hardware compatibility or whatever, but I didn’t have to for Windows.

And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh. That makes a lot of sense.


> And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh.

I'm not saying that I was expecting to run a Hackintosh and suddenly get the advantages of Apple hardware. I am doing a pure software-to-software comparison.

There was no application in the MacOS desktop that made me feel like I was missing out on something. Of all the tools that I am used to use - emacs + developer tools, email clients, messaging clients, media players, media managers, browsers, the occasional office productivity - none of the MacOS counterparts had any significant advantage over what I have in a Linux desktop.


> I am doing a pure software-to-software comparison.

I would argue this is impossible at this point. Most of the benefits of the entire Apple ecosystem are about integration - Macbook Pros are the fastest machines with the best battery life because of the great hardware but also the software integration.

> There was no application in the MacOS desktop that made me feel like I was missing out on something. Of all the tools that I am used to use - emacs + developer tools, email clients, messaging clients, media players, media managers, browsers, the occasional office productivity - none of the MacOS counterparts had any significant advantage over what I have in a Linux desktop.

This isn't really comparing OSes is it? You're comparing software that runs on the OS. Every tool I have on my linux machines I have an equivalent tool for on Mac, or I use the same tool, but the Macbook with MacOS is a workhorse that I can trust to "just work."

I don't think desktop Linux is bad, not by any means, and there are reasons I still go to it first on my personal machines until something forces me to make a different decision, but I also get tired of Linux users telling all of us that our experiences are old and all of these issues are fixed when they're just not, even if that isn't Linux' or the distro's fault.


If you are willing to give the advantage to MacOS due to the integration with the hardware, then you should only judge Linux when provided on hardware from Linux-centric vendors like system76, Tuxedo, Starlite and Framework.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.


> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

Who exactly is "Linux", and what specifically is the claim? It looks to me like you don't want to lose the argument on these grounds, but maybe you could still have a nice laptop with Linux on it that just works.


> Who exactly is "Linux", and what specifically is the claim?

Linux distributions have a set of claims for what hardware they work with, usually as minimum system requirements. Since they are the minimum system requirements the expectation should, within reason, exist that the OS will work if you meet or exceed those requirements.

I say "within reason" because no OS can promise that, minimum is not a forward looking statement and the newest hardware is often the hardest to support.

> It looks to me like you don't want to lose the argument on these grounds

Agreed, because I didn't make any claims that this direction of argument negates. Linux has a harder task supporting a broader array of hardware, that doesn't mean that every argument should compare it to MacOS only on golden/chosen hardware.

If you build a distribution that only claims it works on specific hardware, like SteamOS did, then I agree that's a valid comparison.

> but maybe you could still have a nice laptop with Linux on it that just works.

I'm sure I could, I never claimed you couldn't.


> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

It's the inverse. You claim that Apple "just works" for you and that Linux doesn't. I am saying that if you want to lend credibility to your argument, you need to use hardware that has a certifying vendor behind it.


> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

"Linux" isn't even an operating system. There is no entity in the world who claims "bring any Linux distro at all to any random assortment of hardware you happen to already own, it'll be great and we'll commercially support it!".


I didn’t make a single one of these claims.

I have installed different Linux distros in 4-5 devices in the last year, including a laptop with an Nvidia GPU and a random NUC off Aliexpress. In all cases everything worked out of the box after a fresh installation--and as far as I remember the situation was the same ~10 years ago, when I first started using it. There are hiccups here and there, but nothing I cannot live with. I do tech support for my girlfriend'd mac, and there are just as many small issues there.

All this wall of texts to say that, respectfully, when you write >Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login the issue might simply be that you are doing something very wrong and/or not following the proper instructions for whatever distro you are using.


I can only speak from personal experience.

But I've had multiple Lenovo laptops not work with Ubuntun or nixOS in multiple situations.

Any new yoga variants just always had trouble.

E.g. my yoga slim 7i had a keyboard issue in Ubuntu such that for the first minute, I can't use my keyboard. Had to change boot configbto use "dumb keyboard" or something

The yoga also had speaker issues in nixos as the drivers haven't been mainlined yet. It was onenof those 6 speaker (2 tweeter) setups. I had to download a random driver and chuck it in my nix config to get the subwoofers working.

I gave up after mic issues in multiple zoom calls or gmeet calls.

You can say it's all skills issue, but Mac worked first try.


Laptops notoriously have rare hardware with poor or non-existent drivers. For laptops, you do need to do research with Linux to make sure things outside of the CPU/GPU work.

And, of course macs work first try. Apple makes both the hardware and software, if it didn't work it would be extremely impressive. The fact it's working is expected, not exceptional or noteworthy.


> I have installed different Linux distros in 4-5 devices in the last year, including a laptop with an Nvidia GPU and a random NUC off Aliexpress. In all cases everything worked out of the box after a fresh installation

How interesting! This mirrors my experience with some of my devices, and not with some of my others.

> All this wall of texts to say that, respectfully, when you write >Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login the issue might simply be that you are doing something very wrong and/or not following the proper instructions for whatever distro you are using.

Ahh yes, the complicated instructions of writing the ISO to a thumb drive, running the installer, and trying to login after the installation is complete.

My sin was using a current gen nvidia GPU (a 5080) and a 4K monitor with high refresh rates. This unprecedented combo fails to make the transition from SDDM to Plasma Wayland with the latest (at the time) nvidia drivers baked into the distros I tried. Fortunately, I wasn't alone in this issue based on the forum posts across a couple of distros, so I can be confident that at least some others failed to hold it right as well.


Yes, using an Nvidia GPU is absolutely failing to hold it right. Nvidia has shit support on Linux and they do it intentionally, everybody knows that.

You can blame Linux all you want but there's nothing anybody can do except Nvidia. The whole thing is locked down, no distro or developer on Earth can save Nvidia users.


I can easily tell you a story of the same with the two OSs reversed. It's no longer 2016, pretty much every hardware worth their salt has good, or better Linux support, with the possible exception of some random RGB led not being controllable out of the box (though usually it's not out of the box either on windows). Like outside of desktop, Linux is the most prevalent operating system and it's not even close.

This wasn’t 2016, it was this year, and we are talking about desktop OSes (given the comparison to MacOS). If I wanted to run it as a server without a desktop environment, it would have been fine.

I don’t understand all the folks who crawl out of the woodworks as Acolytes of the Holy Linux Empire every time this topic comes up. Linux is a good desktop OS these days, it is my default, but I don’t have any problems acknowledging its issues and moving to another OS if it can’t meet my needs or if I have hardware/software that it has issues with.


This conversation started because someone said "I wish we could get a LInux system running on an Apple hardware, that would be the best of both worlds", and then the first response is to make a defense of MacOS, implying that MacOS would be the superior choice even if the Linux integration with Apple hardware was leveled.

What I am refuting is basically the idea that MacOS provides a better "experience" than a modern LInux Desktop installed on any reasonably conventional hardware.

I don't refute that are limitations on Linux. I am not saying that it will run everywhere flawlessly. But I am saying that the average college student, the average "web developer" and the average "elderly folk with basic computing needs" can have a good desktop experience without being forced to pay the Apple tax.


I can only speak from personal experience. But I've had multiple Lenovo laptops not work with Ubuntun or nixOS in multiple situations.

Any new yoga variants just always had trouble.

E.g. my yoga slim 7i had a keyboard issue in Ubuntu such that for the first minute, I can't use my keyboard. Had to change boot configbto use "dumb keyboard" or something

The yoga also had speaker issues in nixos as the drivers haven't been mainlined yet. It was onenof those 6 speaker (2 tweeter) setups. I had to download a random driver and chuck it in my nix config to get the subwoofers working.

I gave up after mic issues in multiple zoom calls or gmeet calls.

You can say it's all skills issue, but Mac worked first try.

Not giving Linux a fair shot is not something I'd categorise myself doing given how much I riced my dell xps back in the day.


>This is the kind of dated argument that really makes me dismiss most of the critics. I was running xubuntu as my main desktop since 2010 at least, switched to Debian + nix + XFCE in 2022 and switched to full-on nixOS in 2024. I never had issues with audio then and had to go out of my way to "break" audio on NixOS when I wanted to try pipewire instead of pulse.

Did you ever do any DAW ? Did you have to use is jackd ?

Stuff like streaming games from my desktop in a non native resolution is a no-go with Wayland. I can't do HDMI 4k/120 with HDR/VRR like I can on windows (I know it's HDMI fault, but that doesn't change the fact it doesn't work).

Oh and I've given up on using Linux for productivity a year ago - one can take only so many full browser crashes for simple stuff like desktop sharing, camera/mic stopping mid call.

I'm running linux on my desktop with about as vanilla hardware as you can imagine - the amount of compromises/stuff that just doesn't work is quite annoying.

It's just nowhere near the level of reliability of MacOS - that's why I use my air for productivity and I SSH into the workstation to do actual work in VMs (with all the recent supply chain compromises no way in hell I'm ever doing dev work outside of a sandbox environment).

I've never used a device that claims first party linux support so maybe it's better.

But honestly I'm not a fan of linux desktop in general - flatpack is nice in theory but comes with so many "gotchas" and installing stuff otherwise is just "here you have all the privileges of my user". MacOS sandboxing/security scoping feels way better for desktop use.


Dealing with real-time on Linux is an issue, yes. It has gotten better with pipewire but still far from MacOS.

Everything else I have it on pretty much "just works". I am not a big gamer, but Steam works. Bluetooth works. Wi-Fi works. It detects my printer and scanner better than my wife's windows laptop. No browser crashes.

NixOS is well supported on the Framework and on my workstation. The worst type of inconveniences I have nowadays would be things like what I had some weeks ago: Zoom wouldn't find an already-running process and would get stuck in a loop, solved it by running "nixos-rebuild switch --upgrade".

Compare that with the complaints that you hear from Apple users and the constant reporting on declining quality on MacOS and iOS, and you see why I take issue with statements like "most linux users want the MacOS experience, except with more customization".


MacOS has solved laptop suspend since the 2000s. Windows and Linux still struggle with this, especially due to the switch from S3- to S0ix-style sleep.

Modern Apple laptops seem less special now but you also have to look at them through the lens of their introduction.

A similar thing is true for Sonos. They don't seem all that special now, but you have to realize they have been offering multi-room synced audio with a good UX since 2006. That's before the iPhone even was released.


> MacOS has solved laptop suspend since the 2000s.

On Apple hardware. Call me when you put MacOS on any random laptop and get suspend to work.


Yeah, it's not that hard if the hardware is high quality and of small number of known types.

Windows and Linux is judged by whether it works on any hardware, including the so-cheap-it-should-not-have-been-produced-ever machines, that will obviously just plain suck. No amount of software can save shitty hardware.


I feel like Linux proselytizers are always talking about how Linux will revive or improve low-powered hardware, and that’s one of the reasons it’s so great. Then when it’s still a poor experience, the same Linux users say things like this, that no software can save bad hardware. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Also, Linux expressly aims to run on a wide array of hardware, and macOS doesn’t. So Linux should be judged across a large range of hardware and macOS shouldn’t, in the same way a Jeep should be judged on its off-roading abilities and a Civic shouldn’t.


But then what is left to compare the two?

A supersonic airplane is not better than a bicycle, nor the reverse is true. They are just.. different and only marginally related.

Also, "revive" a device is more of a niche thing. What's more generally in line with linux's philosophy is it scaling down to embedded-like hardware, but also scaling up to supercomputers. Neither end is "a bad experience", and none of the other mainstream desktop OSs can even hold a candle next to it.


> But then what is left to compare the two?

Countless other things about the way they work and how they handle what you want to do with them? We're not comparing radically different things, I was intentional about my comparison of Jeep vs Civic: they're the same basic tool, with different applications and contexts where they shine. This isn't an airplane and a bicycle.


Not really - a Jeep and a Civic is pretty similar in use case still. The Mac would be more like a tram that can only go on rails vs perhaps a bus. If we want to make some useless comparison.

They are both personal computers? If anything it’s a Civic versus an Accord.

Hard to agree with those critics when the OS is doing the right thing, but the hardware won't play ball. The reason there's so much code in the Linux kernel is for various shenanigans that hardware vendors came up with. Yesterday I was looking at how HDMI audio is being implemented. From the specs, it looks quite nice with support for PCM and rates supported sent via EDID, but there's like 5 implementations for that one, 3 of them handling hacks by the GPU vendors.

Windows had working suspend to disk with Windows XP then they messed it up trying to get a more tablet like experience.

:/


the last time i tried changing the audio sample rate for an external dac on a silver blue based immutable distro it would reset every time i rebooted so no this is not an outdated argument. linux still has serious issues with the basics

Idk, I tried Linux last year and couldn’t get my USB wifi to work, even bought a new one that claimed to support Linux, and even tried an entirely new distro (went from Arch to Mint) and still had major problems. Windows handled it just fine.

That combined with a lack of good creative software on Linux kind of kills it for me. I’d rather use it than Windows, but MacOS seems like the best option currently.


In my personal experience macOS is fine but updates are often buggy or regress performance. Linux has just been the more polished option. Plus it just has a nicer desktop and apps.

I stay 1 major version behind with MacOS. If you do that you should have a pretty stable experience. You still get all the security patches but skip most bugs/regressions.

Linux got this philosophy made distribution called Debian. What kind of argument is that for OS experience and stability?

I stay 0 major versions behind with macOS and have a pretty stable experience.

I use macos because of the battery life and because I want a Linux like experience without wondering if some weird software a company update forces on us will work, like citrix desktop or their random vpn client. But for someone who spends most of their time in the terminal, and the rest of the time in a browser, macos has some really annoying quirks especially when it comes to window management

"entirely possible" is a bit of a stretch. You can install some hacky WM and sketchybar but system settings, workspace three finger scroll speed, the finder app, window chrome, login screen etc are not something that can easily be changed. And the default apps are really not that great for power users. Calendar, Mail and Finder are all slow, dumbed down and only very superficially customizable. I daily drive an M2 Pro MBP and I was running a Linux desktop up until 2 years ago and I felt like there were barely any limits to customizing the latter while I have to fight macOS at every step if I want to do something that apple does not want me to do.

Not a problem I have had on Linux.

Some people seem to get better battery life with Windows than with Linux.

Most users on any OSes are not ricers. Most of my customisation is functional - panels and widgets placed for practical reasons. A lot of people do not seem to customise at all, or barely.


Ricing is big, but I also like the hackability and development friendly environment of Linux that isn't there on Macbooks (been running MacOS as a secondary for ~5yrs now)

The difficult thing with Linux has always been finding well supported hardware. People always try to get it running on whatever random collection of hardware they have on hand and then are surprised that they have some problems. If you buy with Linux in mind you can get hardware that just works.

> MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works.

MacOS is sometimes so weird and inconsistent that it's hard to tell whether it's a bug of Apple usual's "you are not smart/cool-enough to understand" kind of feature.


I'm likely not "most Linux ricers", but as a long-term desktop Linux user, I'm very bothered when I have to use macOS GUI, and explicitly want a non-macOS experience. (This is why I avoid Gnome, for instance.)

> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility.

Is that on Mac hardware? I run a 14 year old Mac Book Air, and it works flawlessly with the latest Nixos, and has done for the last 11 years.

If you have issues on random PCs, it's because there are an enormous variety of them out there, with all kinds of incompatibilities that have to be worked around. On Mac hardware, there tends to be a more restricted number of variants, and after a few years, Linux becomes rock solid on them.

So the OP is correct, Linux on Mac hardware is the best combo.


A 14 year old Macbook Air is an Intel Mac, AFAIK most hardware is pretty well supported.

M series Macs are still very much a work in progress. I'm typing this on one, in Linux, so plenty of things work, but not for example USB-C output to an external display, and a lot of the processor power level / suspend stuff is still not fully there so battery life is quite a bit worse, especially when suspended. I think the situation is rather worse on the latest generation hardware, too.


Did wifi work out of the box? I really struggled with a 2013 Air.

I think I might have used a usb ethernet to install it? It was 2017 the last (and first) time I had to re-install, so I don't remember.

Liquid Ass enters the chat, Apple can’t even make rounded corners anymore.

I was burned by the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard, and once Liquid Ass was announced I knew it was time to get out.

Sold my MacBook Pro M2 Pro, which has a stupid gigantic notch that blocks the menu bar items with no built-in mechanism for getting to them when they overflow.

Now I’m on a Framework 13” and I’ve had zero issues with Linux. Everything just works. KDE Plasma is way more customizable than macOS or Windows. I’m finally able to ditch slow Homebrew and use a real package manager. I can finally play light PC games on my laptop without dealing with streaming or Crossover.

My preorder is in for the Framework 13 Pro, which looks to get even closer to delivering a MacBook Pro for Linux. Meanwhile, Apple hasn’t changed their chassis design in 5 years, while Framework updates their hardware constantly while maintaining cross-compatibility. A company with less than 500 employees is catching up to a trillion dollar corporation.

I’ve already got my fully modular LPCAMM RAM delivered and ready with no Apple tax. I’ll get better battery life watching YouTube videos than a MacBook Pro and the graphics are just as powerful as the M5 base chip.

And if something breaks I won’t have to deal with the nightmare I went through with my 2016 MacBook Pro.


Can macOS snap windows to the side yet without external plugins?

Yes.

Oh, nice, when I last tried it about the M1 timeframe, it still didn't.

What that convinced me of is that macOS is just not for power users.


They added it a few years back

MacOS is also optimised for M series chips in a way that realistically no linux distribution ever will be.

Definitely good to have the option, but you'll most likely never get quite the same performance or battery life on linux


I agree that MacOS is more polished. However overall, Linux is a better complete package - especially for power users, gamers and engineers.

Linux GUIs are _fine enough_ though the jank is still present. The good news is they will get better with more users entering the chat.

The thing to note is that, we don't want to confuse "it's not as good right now" with "It's bad so I will never use it" because that signals a lack of interest.

There is a non-zero chance that Apple could be compelled to support it if enough people express interest (historically, they have with bootcamp).

Competition is good, even if the competition is bad right now. We must encourage it.


Generally yes, but the community around MLX has rallied pretty strong. Sure your disk io is awful, and your OS is buggy, but at least ML compiles and works on a modern OS.

Works like rocm seem so close. But you need either the pre-compiled packages or 2+ year old Ubuntu to compile them. https://github.com/ROCm/TheRock/issues/3477


I'm still on Ubuntu 22 because everything works. Got enough packages that still request I don't use wayland that I don't want to risk an upgrade.

Sad because I really want the better One drive integration that Ubuntu 24+ comes with.


I sympathize. But it seems so weird to me to be a Linux open source adopter, who is also so am conservative. Heck yes KDE, sway, Niri, and so many other new desktops are so so so nice. I can't imagine staying in the old world.

But who should AMD for example target? It seems obvious to me. Personally I think if you are trying to make tools like ai acceleration software, you should 100% be focused on the alpha geeks. The people who want bleeding edge new stuff, the people who will take that and roll with it and expand your ecosystem are almost entirely the early adopters. The progressives are the social tastemakers, are the point on the adoption curve where cool and good happens.

It's infuriating watching AMD bungle their chances by targeting people interested in ancient technology, for their incredibly advanced powerful rich new stack. What are you doing?!?! There needs to be a starting point for the alpha geeks, those who are willing.


> But it seems so weird to me to be a Linux open source adopter, who is also so am conservative.

I used to be a tech enthusiast who installed the latest bleeding edge everything.

Now days I need a stable machine that lets me work. Sometimes my work is bleeding edge, but I want my machine to be boring and stable.

I can't run the latest open source models if I can't get my machine to even boot.

Also some of the latest AI stuff (desktop control, full screen recording, etc) doesn't support wayland. E.g. https://pieces.app/ prefer x11 due to the simpler security model.


I like this quote from warp people, on why they are open sourcing. Parallels to what I'm saying above even though it's a different matter:

> * we need to build our business by offering the best possible product to the most excited community.*

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47936612

TheRock is so close but there just doesn't seem to be an eye on the ball for actually making this usable. This stack of issues blocking even vaguely modern systems has been sitting untouched for months.


Having used a macbook air for work just recently… not the best hardware at all. I think I can spend 5€ and get a better keyboard.

There are fringes that have wacky and particular priorities, but not recognizing that you are such a niche and asserting that your silly requirement makes them “not the best” for the vast majority of people is silly

Sorry I wanted to mention a few hundreds other reasons but I thought it'd be too long.

I went from introvert only-child to married with kids. As they hit daycare, I was perpetually riddled with disease for about 15 months. I still had to take care of the kids though, so I was liberally taking Ibuprofen. At some point, I started to get horrible heartburn. I tried all kinds of dietary restrictions until I realized it was probably the Ibuprofen. Now, if I take even one pill, the heartburn comes back. I switched to Acetaminophen and found it was much more effective at reducing fever with no apparent side effects.


Yeah our son became eligible for creche just when covid came. All at home but we couldn't take full time care for him forever so eventually he started going in (they can start at 6 months here in Switzerland if you are lucky and get the spot, we did it gradually since 9 months). Then daughter came and same cycle.

Needless to say we had covid at least 12 times at this point, all with positive tests so no mistake there. Plus few other questionable cases without tests. Some were brutal, like first and second one, that was before vaccines, and then a recent one when we seem to have lost most of immunity. Back then I lost taste for few weeks completely and smell didn't fully come back till 6 months after (sniffing bottle of vodka did smell like forest air, even later my perfume smelled rotten). Weird times, eating nice looking gunk and trying to imagine how it tasted before.

I don't think I had flu that many times over my whole life, hate that shit with fiery passion and having small kids in creche/school is just a 24/7 virus importing service. None of our peers had it as bad as we did, no idea why the 'luck'.


And yet you are also likely to argue “weather is not climate”. Differences in population characteristics of all kinds have massive societal implications and we should lean into addressing them.


Well if you are talking about environmental stuff (like leaded gasoline), sure.

If you’re talking about trying to improve the genetics of populations at scale… yikes.


people trying to force everyone else to accept their poorly defended notions of race superiority have a much larger social impact than any quantifiable differences in the genetics of populations.


It’s really bizarre to me that, even before the war, the mainstream western media ignored the 30k protesters getting massacred in January. They have been using kid gloves with the Iranian regime for some time, like this article exemplifies.


The protests and killings were extremely widely reported at the time.


Without access to the Internet from the Iranian people, the media reach was limited. It was not widely reported.


I'm not sure why you think that when even the US President was tweeting about it


Find better news sources. This was very much covered.


How much control does China have on what comes across your screen do you think? I suspect it is not none.


(not parent)

Something's been bothering me, and it's how little control our leadership has over what comes across their screens.

1 - We've read the reputable reporting on the troll farms.

2 - We haven't seen reporting that the problem is fixed.

3 - We know our politicians are on social media.

Presumably, every single day, American politicians see at least one post from someone pretending to be their constituent. How are they avoiding conscious, if not subconscious, influence?


So, partially by not reading or caring about constituents. At least not the ones that call and bitch, the ones that donate get great care.

Then we’re back to square one… leaving ActBlue’s foreign donation allegations out for a moment… how much of soft power (China, US, or otherwise) is from campaign contributions, direct or a degree removed?


The accurate number is 6,000 but someone from Israel's side said it could be up to 30,000.

Protesters are armed solders with guns organized by IDF and CIA.


Specifically, Human Rights Activists in Iran's count is 6,488. Iran International is the main outlet that claimed more (first 10k, then 30k and now 40k). Iran International is actually Saudi-owned and technically based in the UK but, as The Guardian's investigation showed, is not a real journalistic institution. It's just a propaganda outlet for Mohammed bin Salman

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/31/concern-over-u...


Just annotating this as the Iranian regime’s talking point


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